Jon Reiss Interview

Jon Reiss has become one of the main voices on DIY and alternative distribution (along with Ted Hope). He’s a filmmaker and the author of the book Think Outside the Box Office, an invaluable resource for anyone who’s made or (more preferably) is thinking about making a film.

In the podcast we talk about different distribution options, alternative screening venues, building an audience, the closing of B-Side Entertainment, Tribeca’s VOD announcement, and more.

Check out Jon’s blog at www.jonreiss.com/blog

And get the book at www.thinkoutsidetheboxoffice.com

If you happen to be in Miami on Saturday, Jon will be on a panel on DIY Distribution that’s part of the Miami International Film Festival. More info here.

Remember to subscribe in iTunes.

(Direct M4A File)

This podcast episode has a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike license. Basically you can share and reuse this episode however you like, but all I ask in return is that you also share it and you Coffee and Celluloid by linking back to this page.

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There’s a very cool video series up by Sabi Pictures with Filmmaker Magazine and Workbook Project. It’s a series incorporating interviews and discussions by a few filmmakers and producers from this past Sundance and poses questions, answers, and solutions  on new ways for filmmakers to distribute and find life for their films. Also, for video series that partly revolves around a table discussion, it’s beautifully shot.

NEW BREED PARK CITY – AN OPEN DISCUSSION from Sabi Pictures on Vimeo.

NEW BREED PARK CITY – Discovering the Questions from Sabi Pictures on Vimeo.

NEW BREED PARK CITY – Seeking the Answers, Part 1 from Sabi Pictures on Vimeo.

NEW BREED PARK CITY – Seeking the Answers, Part 2 from Sabi Pictures on Vimeo.

NEW BREED PARK CITY – Exploring the Solutions, Part 1 from Sabi Pictures on Vimeo.

Follow Sabi Pictures on Vimeo to get Part 2 of Exploring the Solutions and any other videos they might release.

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45365 is a documentary that was at Full Frame but I never got a chance to watch it. This week it’s been on Hulu for free, which I’m very excited about (but today is the last day so watch it now). But for the film itself, I thought it was great. It’s very Cinema Verite, so I can understand why some people didn’t like it. There’s no narration, no formal interviews; just an amazing portrait capturing an entire small town (45365 is the zip code of Sydney, OH).

Now for the business side of the film being on Hulu. As I said, this makes me very excited. SnagFilms, a video sharing site designed soley for documentaries, has their watermark on the whole film. I’m glad to see they’re growing, and I’m also glad to see they’ve joined with Hulu. I watched a film on SnagFilms once and their player wanted to make me gouge my eyes out, it was the worst thing ever. The ads would play and then send you to a different point in the movie, and then you couldn’t go back to where you were without watching more ads. So painful. I hope they’ve done some serious changes to it. But at least this is on Hulu, which on the opposite end I think is one of the best online players, even better than Netflix.

So I’m curious as to what the distribution deal is, because it was on Hulu for a week. SnagFilms says it’s part of a series to watch a film a week for free before it goes to TV of Theater (I’m guessing TV). I’m glad Hulu has been embracing documentaries (Crawford premiered on Hulu a few months ago). 45365 has been in the top banner all week. It’s gotten hundreds of comments and I’m sure thousands of views. This is a film that probably wouldn’t have worked too well in a theater, but now it’s online for free and ad supported (most of the ads were for a Honda documentary series) and tons of people are seeing it who probably would have never heard of it had it not been for SnagFilms, Hulu, and of course this new-fangled internet distribution model.

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Last week I officially finished You 2.0, the doc that delayed graduation a semester, and self released it on DVD. It’s a niche film, and I felt like it would work better just selling it myself as a DVD (it has a unique structure) rather than waste time trying to get into festivals, which for a short film doesn’t have much of a future.

Pick up a copy or try to get one for free!

I’ll post some more in detail on the actual processes I’ve been going through for self distribution, because I’ve had to learn a lot about DVD duplication vs. replication, order fulfillment services, international shipping, PayPal, sales tax, and other random stuff.

And with that extended project finally behind me, I’ve begun work on a new documentary (and moving in the process). I’ll write soon on what that is, and all the new stuff I have to learn that Film School didn’t cover.

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Two articles from indieWIRE got me thinking this morning. The first is from the all too familiar Geoffrey Gilmore in ‘Evolution v. Revolution, The State of Independent Film & Festivals.’

A lot of it echoes Mark Gill’s much buzzed ‘The Sky is Falling‘ essay from last year. Basically independent film is in a slump for a few reasons. The main two are the economy sucks so the  distribution companies that didn’t get shut down are not buying much¹, and using submissions to Sundance as a gauge of how many independent films are produced a year, that number has gone up fourfold in the past 10 years.

What does this mean? Compared to 10 years ago, there are four times as many movies with less money to buy and distribute them. The pipes are clogged. Why? Because it’s so cheap and easy to make a movie.

Before I go on, there are two separate issues here: lots of crappy movies and no money to buy and distribute. We’ll start with the crap.

Is Your Idea Worth a Million Dollars?

Film is very expensive. No surprise there. Not only do you have to pay for the film stock, but you have to pay just as much to have it processed and then even more if you want it scanned so you can edit on the computer.

Yet this cost prohibition formed a filter. Crap wouldn’t be made. Because a film is so expensive to make, you’d need people to finance and believe in your project. You’d have to pitch them your idea, which means your idea and story would have to be somewhat decent for them to give you their money. If there was no story, or if you wanted to just film 2 hours of crap, you wouldn’t have the money to do it, and thus the crap would never exist.

Today it’s still just as hard to make a movie well, but because it’s so cheap and easy to make a movie, the crap gets made. When Sundance gets 4000 submissions you know some gems will be overlooked. About 6 years ago I could get my short films (once they were legitimately qualified) to IMDb without an issue. Today my films keep getting wait-listed, and I suspect that’s because anyone who’s made a little film and thrown it on YouTube has submitted it to IMDb, and now they have to sort through thousands of submissions to figure out what’s legit and what’s Charlie biting on fingers.

While it may sound like I want to set off some world-wide EMP and bring us all back to the dark ages (or at least go back to celluloid), I do think overall the digital revolution is great. We just have to have more self control and ask “Is this film worth spending months of my life on?” Or more importantly, “Is this worth two hours of someone’s time?”

Is a Movie a Movie if it’s not in the Movies?

The second problem – no money to buy and distribute films. Here’s the fictional lead from the other article that caught my attention today, ‘Not Picked Up in Park City? Filmmakers Look Forward to DIY Release Options.’

The year is 2014. Joe the Filmmaker just found out he’s going to Sundance with his debut film. His trailer is online the next day. He’s got posters at the printer, and a marketing consultant on the phone. In the days leading up to the festival, he hits up bloggers for press, notifies all his Facebook friends and buys ads both online and in print. After winning a special jury prize for innovation during the final day of the festival, he plugs his movie into the IDN (Indie Distribution Network), selling it directly to indie-minded audiences around the country for viewing on their Internet TVs and iPhones, while a percentage of the proceeds feed directly into his bank account. Done.

This is an echo of what I keep reading – Being picked up by a distributor and getting a theatrical release should not be the only goal. Here’s the standard distribution chain a film follows: it gets theatrically released, goes to DVD, gets on Pay-per-view, then a premium channel (HBO, Starz), cable channel, broadcast.

The internet has shaken that up and challenged that model. When do you put the film on iTunes? Hulu? Do you need a theatrical release? What if you release on DVD and On Demand at the same time? What if it’s available online, ad supported?

The internet has opened a lot of doors. It’s possible to screen, sell, and market your film all by yourself.

But you have to ask yourself, should the goal be “I want people to see my movie” or “I want people to see my movie properly?” There isn’t a single filmmaker who got into directing because they want to premiere their films on someone’s iPhone. If I was Danny Boyle and I saw someone watching Slumdog Millionaire for the first time on their iPhone, I’d shit a brick.

While this argument may sound pretentious, the plain fact is if you’re watching a film on a 3 inch screen in an environment open to distractions you’re missing part of the film.

Again, I don’t want my EMP to wipe out all iPods and iPhones from playing video. Being able to watch anything, anytime, where ever you want is great. I just think some types of media, such as shorts and some docs, work on a computer or iPhone, while others require a theater to get the full experience.

I have my share of movies I love on my phone, and I think it’s the greatest thing that I can watch Jizz in My Pants when I’m stuck in JFK. What’s important to me is first viewing, that magical experience when you pop your cherry with a film.

It goes back thousands of years to the caveman days, sitting around the campfire at night, telling stories. There’s something embedded in us that draws us to this communal experience.

You’re in a dark theater with people you don’t know, experiencing this one story together, going through the same emotions. For two hours you can shut out the world, escape from your problems and share in this experience. You can home theater your house up all you want but you’ll never be able to match the theater experience. Wedding Crashers will never be as funny as the first time I saw it in a packed theater.

Here’s my hope with theaters, and it’s helped in large part with the digital revolution. It’s digital projectors.

Right now most films are still screened from a 35mm print, even if it’s shot digitally. They’re bulky and heavy (expensive to ship) and one print, for one theater, costs thousands of dollars. That’s why it’s expensive and risky to release a movie. Even if you’re doing a very limited release in a few cities, you’re still looking at least $100k to transfer the film, make enough prints and ship them to theaters.

Now here’s the scenario with a digital projector. The film is either sent on a hard drive or over the internet. It’s loaded into the projector and screened. Fast, cheap, and easy.

But it gets better. When a theater books a film it’s a big commitment. They’re saying that you’re film will occupy one of their theaters (they only have 5-24 of them), for the entire week. One, maybe two movies can occupy a theater, because it’s a big hassle to have to switch that huge print to play something different. What if it bombs the first day and then they have six days of an empty theater when they could have put The Dark Knight in there and be bringing in the cash.

Now here’s the digital world. There’s no cost for a print, you just have to get a digital copy to the theater. But they don’t have to play just one movie a day, they can play five different movies throughout the day in the same theater, and stretch them over the week, adopting more of a TV schedule. If a movie does well, they can screen it more. If not, well at least it had a shot that wasn’t an option before.

And what if theaters adopt the technology that powers YouTube and viral videos. Movies are rated, commented on. The more popular movies get more showtimes. Same technology from the web, better viewing experience.

Here’s one of the more thought provoking paragraphs from Geoffrey:

The “long tail” of availability, the keeping of films in the market for longer periods of time is especially important for independent film. And that a film’s release is ordered by an antiquated theatrical universe is one of the fundamental obstacles facing the independent arena.  Indeed why are films “seasonal” instead of “evergreen?”  The practice of dating films, i.e. assigning a year of release, strikes me as a holdover from the marketing past. How and where films will be made available depends on the establishment of new outlets and new strategies. It simply makes no sense that most of the year’s quality films are all released against each other in a cutthroat fall campaign.  In the future perhaps festival platforms could further serve to give films long-term visibility. At the very least new web venues, transformed marketing strategies and dynamic new concepts for consumption are at the core of making films available.

There’s no denying the internet and new media is the future. I think we’re seeing all this hoopla surrounding it because the William Goldman quote still holds true. Nobody knows anything. But it’ll be exciting when someone finally does.

Agree? Disagree? Please share your thoughts below?

1. For a very quick primer on the traditional distribution model, you’d make a film, hope it gets into a prestigious festival such as Sundance, a buyer from a distribution company sees it and loves it, buys the film from you and distributes it making money mainly for them, and if you’re lucky for you as well. Possibly more importantly, you’re film would have had a theatrical release, be known and seen, garnered critical acclaim and awards, and start your career. ↩

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indieWIRE: FIRST PERSON | Peter Broderick: “Welcome To The New World of Distribution,” Part 1.

This is a great article anyone looking to make a film should read. This is what I’m trying to do with You 2.0 (life hacking movie) and I think a lot of indie films don’t get it – you need to start marketing and connecting in pre-production.

Filmmakers design creative distribution strategies customized to their film’s content and target audiences. They can begin outreach to audiences and potential organizational partners before or during production. They often ignore traditional windows, selling DVDs from their websites before they are available in stores, sometimes during their theatrical release, and even at festivals. Filmmakers are able to test their strategies step-by-step, and modify them as needed.

The quote above basically outlines my strategy. We’ll see if it works.

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To continue my tail of un-hiring woes, we must first go back a few months to the first time I drove Geoffrey Gilmore around.

As I said in summation, driving Geoffrey around brought me a lot closer to Paul Cohen, an independent distributor¹ who is the business side of show business in one man.

I guess I did a good job with Geoffrey because Paul really seemed to like me. Over the next few months (the Geoffrey chauffeuring was back in February), we met and had coffee a few times and finally had a ‘thank you’ dinner.

Paul moved to Tallahassee not to leave the business but to move to a less expensive town, so he’s starting up a new distribution company in conjunction with the school to serve as a learning environment for the business side of filmmaking.

He asked if I wanted to intern and work on distributing and marketing real movies. How about ‘yes.’

So to skip a bit, and because we’re under non-disclosure agreements so I can’t talk about it much, there’s about eight of us interning, working in a separate building virally marketing the Germs biopic What We Do Is Secret.

You can see some of my handy work if you search for the What We Do Is Secret group on Facebook (over 400 members) as well as some write-ups on music blogs.

Oh yes, this internship also involves a trip to the Toronto Film Festival.

1. That means he buys films and releases them in theaters, on DVD, etc, with the idea being he makes more money back than the purchase price. ↩

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I just finished designing the DVD for Cubicles to give out to the crew and interviewees. A lot of people liked the design and asked what was needed, so here’s a guide I wrote up.

Maxell DVD-R Printable
50 for $14.99
Get these while they’re still on sale. When first putting the DVD label on my cheapo CompUSA disc, I found (and I assume this happens to most labels) that the print on the disk shows through the label. These DVDs are the only completely blank DVDs I was able to find. If you don’t go for these, make sure yours are a solid color on the back and make sure it’s -R.

Memorex Expert DVD Labelmaker Kit
138 Labels and Applicator for $19.99
If you’ve never bought a label maker kit before that comes with an applicator then you need to get one. This is a one time expense that will save you loads of headaches. Don’t try applying a DVD label by eye, you’ll die. Really. The applicator is a spring loaded device that perfectly aligns the DVD and label. Down the line all you’ll have to buy are just the labels. Plus they all come with some type of formatting software to make life easier.
A bonus tip – when applying the label they tell you to push down on the inner plastic edge of the disc to avoid getting fingerprints everywhere. This way sucks – you’ll get a lot of air bubbles. Instead put one of those clear plastic DVDs that come in a spindle or an AOL disc on top of the DVD so you can put more pressure on the disc and get a good seal.

CompUSA DVD Storage Case
10 for $7.99
These are the large cases most DVDs come in. I overpaid for my cases at Staples. CompUSA seems to have the cheapest.

Memorex DVD Case Inserts
25 for $13.99
To finish everything off you’ll need to print your DVD cover on some fancy paper. These sheets are perforated to tear apart and fit perfectly in your DVD case, with some more perforations to bend at the spine. Photoshop helps to make some cool designs, but this also comes with its own design and print software.

I’m sure with some online hunting you can find better prices. Using the above prices it’s $1.80 per disc, which is a small price to pay to thank your cast and crew.

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It’s finally happened. As previously mentioned, the podcast spin-off of Cubicles has finally launched, though very quietly.

I’m still trying to work out the bugs. I’ll explain my work flow in more detail in another post, but basically I’ve exported the movie into an iPod friendly .m4v 320×240 and am hosting it through my server.

I decided to forgo YouTube and other online hosting since I want this to be available in iTunes and I’d like to deal with just one file per episode to make tracking the stats easier. This, of course, might change for future episodes. This whole thing is a learning process.

You can view the web site and blog. I’m holding off on listing in iTunes until I know everything is working okay and I have another episode or two up.

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